Q&A with Cath Braid & Rolla Khadduri

Cath Braid: “I trained as a designer in Central St. Martins, in London. At the time, my ambition was to work in a leading fashion house. It seemed like it was all going according to plan when I got an excellent job as a design assistant for Burberrys, but it paled compared to the excitement of working in Pakistan.

Part of my thesis had involved studying the philosophy of working with villagers; how to improve quality and how much they could get for their products. I was chatting with my mother, discussing fashion brands like GAP and labour rights, which were very much in the media in those days. The name of Shubinak came up, along with an Australian couple who worked for the Swiss-funded project. Shubinak focused on improving the quality ofpatti, the pure woolen cloth made by Chitrali womenfolk in the winter months, and ensuring better markets and money for them.”

CB: “Yes, I went to Pakistan in November 2000. I started working with Shubinak as part of my thesis. The Chitrali manager of Shubinak said to me, you will go away and forget us’. He is right, of-course, because most consultants do just that, but the remark still niggled. I didn’t want to do that… so I came back.”

What prompted you to set up a fashion business with all the products manufactured primarily in Chitral?
CB: “I was amazed from the start by their extraordinary level of embroidery skills and I could see so much potential in their work. So, I took it a step further – the women have been working on my designs and producing fantastic accessory pieces like handbags and scarves that are sold internationally in high-end boutiques.”

Did you feel a sense of risk or apprehension about setting up a business in such a rural part of Pakistan with these women? Were you advised against it?
CB: “Yes. A lot of people thought I would do it for a few months, run out of money, and end up back home. We were operating on a shoestring! But it worked. After getting orders from our first Australian Fashion Week, we took a calculated risk and asked our parents if they would be able to help us financially to fulfill the order. They did, and we paid them back – what a happy day! And… we made a profit after that.”

Tell us more about how the business is run. For example, how have you managed your time, between time in Chitral and time marketing your products abroad to high-end buyers?

CB “I ran the fashion business with my Australian partner from 2003 until 2008, and we divided the task. But, it was hard to maintain the momentum of short time-frame between order and delivery, not to mention problems with sizes. When my Australian partner bought out of the business, I knew I wanted to go ahead with the bags under a different label. The bags are much simpler to manage than clothing. With the polly&me bags, my sister in Australia handles the publicity and management, and I design and produce about two collections of bags per year.

For their production, the bag travels many miles and passes through many hands. The women in Chitral embroider the panels based on the designs and colourways I send them. They are organised through community centers run by MOGH, a registered private limited company that was originally part of the Agha Khan Rural Support Program (AKRSP). The centers offer health workshops, literacy classes and Quran classes, amongst other activities. The women collect the work, and can embroider either at the centre or at home. Then, MOGH checks the quality of the work, and the textiles travel to Karachi where they are stitched onto leather and lined with block-printed fabric. The final product is packed in cotton bags embellished with hand-embroidered buttons.”

You have been running a successful cottage industry now for over five years; employing 400 skilled rural women and reaping good profits. Have you found this difficult as a foreigner?
CB: “I have always been welcomed as a foreigner. I lived in Chitral for several years, throughout the harsh winters, and have always felt at home.”

Your brand has been featured in trend-setting, top fashion magazines like Vogue. This must be extremely satisfying for you.
CB: “It is surreal! And yes, of-course, extremely satisfying. I have wanted this for such a long time. But, in a way, the idea of it happening is very different than the reality of my bags being in Vogue. What is really heartening is that I love Pakistani women wearing my designs, them seeing their bag in Vogue, and being so proud that it is ‘Made in Pakistan’. That is a real achievement for me.”

Currently you are voluntarily giving your time to arrange an exhibition of textiles with the 400 women who work for you. Can you tell us about that?
CB: “Well, with this exhibition, I wanted to do more. I wanted to give the women an opportunity to be creative. It is amazing what they create with the simplest of equipment and only their immediate surroundings for inspiration.

In 2007, I was a speaker at a symposium on ‘Design and the Handmade’ at the Powerhouse Museum in Australia. Conversing with a fellow presenter who had worked with women’s groups in development in Australia and Ethiopia, I told him that I had been working with Chitrali women for over three years. I explained that though embroidery was a traditional skill, the women were not imaginative, and if they were to work independently, they would just repeat the same old designs. The educational system, with its emphasis on rote learning, did nothing to help. He assured me that everybody has creativity, ‘you just have to give them the tools, and they will surprise you,’ he said.

Armed with my mother’s art book, Rolla and I put together a series of workshops. In our first visit in March, we spoke to the women who embroider my bags, and so many of them were interested in learning how to design, and in telling their stories. They gave from their time to collaborate with us in the workshops.

Chitral is an isolated mountain valley in the North-West Frontier of Pakistan (NWFP), and can be cut off from the rest of Pakistan for a quarter of the year when the Lowari Pass closes. One aim of this exhibition is to depict the uniqueness of life there, and to preserve some time-old traditions that are slowly fading. For example, ‘All’s well that ends well’ is a piece describing an old story-teller Ghulam, who admits that he is being replaced by television. Other pieces about a sitar-player or a traditional egg-breaking game provide a closer look into the culture of the valley. On ‘The Mantelpiece’ design, the harshness of the Chitrali winter becomes obvious.”

CB: “Using my art knowledge and Rolla’s knowledge of development, we put together a series of seven workshops that we ran between March and October 2008. The main method we applied was using motivators to inspire the women and unleash their creativity. So, for example, we used everyday packages from around them for inspiration. And then, we employed techniques such as collage, photography, still-life, and portrait drawing. The workshops were also very much a ‘work in progress’ – we saw what worked and what didn’t, and improvised and spontaneously introduced new techniques and ideas.”

How have your managed to communicate with these women when you cannot speak the same language?
CB: “I speak a little Kowar, and some of the women speak a little English. For the bags, I work through a great intermediary organisation called MOGH, whose supervisors speak both languages. But, much of my work can also be done through visual demonstration – so, we show each other the colours, I can point out flaws in the design, and so on.”

What impact do you think small businesses like yours can have on communities?
CB: “The business we provide to the women mean that they can earn a very decent salary, whilst staying within their homes and maintaining their purdah, and that they can employ their traditional skills in a much-welcomed innovative way. I think that has both a large financial impact on their lives, and makes them feel very proud.

But, the exhibition has moved even beyond that, and has given them so much confidence. In the words of one of the women, she said, ‘we have become the fathers of design… I cannot believe we ourselves have made these!’ I know the thrill of seeing my own completed work, and I am so glad the women can now feel that same excitement.”

What are your plans for the future?
CB: “Polly&me is here to stay.I want to continue the handbags business in Chitral, and I want to inspire other young designers to break the boundaries, to travel, to see potential and to grab it. It is possible to create fashion with a social conscience.

It would be great to inspire Pakistani artists to push boundaries of their discipline or craft, and to do similar work.

As for the exhibition, we want to take it abroad – to Australia, to the UK, to Dubai. It is important for it to be seen by a wide and varied audience and for that, we need to raise awareness about the exhibition and also enlist sponsorship for the traveling pieces.

We are also thinking of spin-off products based on the women’s designs – so, handbags and other accessories that integrate the women’s work. This will bring more money to the valley, and will give them such a sense of pride to see their work on commercial products.”

Rolla Khadduri: “I am part Iraqi, part Lebanese and part Palestinian, so I grew up in an uncertain region full of upheaval. I was always aware that my family was one of the lucky ones, but my parents taught me that I had to give something back, that we shouldn’t take things for granted.

I trained in Public Health at Harvard University, and did a little work in the Middle East. Then I came to Pakistan and worked with Save the Children in Haripur, supporting the government in their delivery of maternal and child health services. From here, I went to Afghanistan and worked in rural communities in the north, again with Save the Children. Then I traveled to Kosovo and a number of other Eastern European countries before going to the UK for a few years, and ultimately returned to Pakistan. So, I am a nomad! I make my home wherever I go and I always find a wonderful community of women to work with.”

When did you first come to Pakistan?

RK: “I first came to Pakistan at the end of 1999. Although I came as a foreigner, I have always felt welcome and at home here, and when I don’t live here, I tend to return often. I can’t stay away!”

You have worked in development, but what prompted you to go into the field voluntarily and work with Cath on this project without the structure of an organisation?

RK: “Primarily, I wanted to have a flexible job which revolved around my children, rather than the other way round. I have a two-year old boy and a three-year old daughter, and they are my first priority.

But also, I wanted to try something a little bit outside of the box; something different that touched on the poignancy and details that I had noticed throughout my work, but hadn’t been able to pursue because of the constraints (or opportunities!) of donors, proposals, reporting… all the admin that goes with working for any organisation.”

And you have always worked in health? Why this drastic change into art?
RK: “Because of Cath! But also because whatever subject you are working on – art, health, education – requires women to feel confident. I still aspire to the same objectives of ‘empowerment’ and ‘improved decision-making’ that most development projects aim for. Achieving these nebulous but much-needed concepts through art is a different – and so very creative and fun – way of doing it.

Development has taught me that we have to listen as well as speak. So, when we were running the workshops, Cath and I merely worked as facilitators, providing catalysts for thought. We encouraged the women’s curiosity and exploration, and helped them develop their ideas. This process has gradually built up and supported the women’s ability to decide on what they want to say about their lives, and how they want to visually depict their tales. The pieces – both the designs and the narratives – took very different turns than what we had expected them to.”

Has communication been an issue?
RK: “I always resent the fact that we do not all speak one universal language. But, we were lucky to find two excellent translators – sisters, in fact – who picked up on the nuances of conversation and the women’s emotions. They have really helped us get an insight into the women’s lives. Also, I think just being around people and participating with them in some of the daily chores means you learn a lot without the need for conversation.”

I believe ‘The universality of women’s lives’ is the theme for this exhibition for International Women’s Day. Do you want to tell us about some of your thoughts and experiences behind this?
RK: “Cath and I both feel strongly that, although there are variations between cultures, as women, we are more the same than different. We wanted to show that women everywhere have similar concerns, go through remarkably common emotions. So, for example, the ‘Mother and Milk’ piece describes the tempestuousness of the mother/daughter relationship. In the ‘Prayers’ piece, the women open up and tell us their short-term and long-term aspirations, many of which are similar to yours and mine. The ‘Ramazan and Daily Chores’ series illustrates women’s everyday activities of laundry, making new clothes, and cooking. The ‘Childhood Mischief’ series is a panel of reflections about the fun and innocence of childhood. These are universal themes.

Speaking to friends and family abroad, and reading the Western press, we were struck how the voices of rural Pakistani women are rarely heard in a positive context. Yes, the stories about restrictions, honor killings, the political situation, and suicide bombers are needed… but, the stories of ‘normal’ women with wonderful lives also deserve space. The embroidered textiles provide that positive platform.”

RK: “The twenty artisans are proud of the purdah they maintain, and are happy within the confines of their close neighbourhoods. They feel very comfortable in their culture.”

Can you describe the impact your projects had on these women’s lives?
RK: “On the last day of the workshops, as I was leaving, one of the women told me, ‘with one eye we are crying and the other eye we are smiling’. I think they are so happy to have done the work, to have designed the 23 pieces, and to know that the pieces will ultimately be sold to provide them with much-needed income for their dowry, for land etc. But, they are also sad that the time of learning has ended, because we all enjoyed it so much. I hope they can continue doing their own designs.”

Your innovative approach to rural development and female empowerment has been extremely effective. What do you think are the reasons behind its success?
RK: “Collaboration – we work with the women as equal partners. We learn from them, we listen to them, we respect them. I know this all sounds very trite, but it is true.”

What are your plans for the future?

RK: “To go back to Chitral and give the female artisans the money they will make from selling their pieces. I can’t wait to hear what they will do with the money, i.e. if they decide to sell the piece! Some are so poignant and have meant so much to them to design and embroider, I have a feeling they might want to keep them.

I am also thinking of writing a book about the process, so it can touch many people’s lives. It has to be the kind of book I would have picked up age 18 and thought, ‘why not?’ And, to maybe do these series of collaborative workshops to document women’s stories somewhere else.